Episode 8 - Cait Nishimura
Episode 8 features Cait Nishimura, Canadian composer based in Ontario known for her concert band works and pieces approachable for student-level ensembles. We talk with Cait about her composing background, flexible arrangements, and the connection between sustainability, mental health, and music.
To learn more about Cait and the resources she recommends, check out the links below!
Cait Nishimura - Website
The Band Room Pod
... And We Were Heard
The Nature Conservancy of Canada
Ontario Parks
*Also, just look up your local parks!*
Full Transcript
Carrie Blosser 0:01
Welcome to Diversify the Stand, the resource centered around listening, learning and promoting diverse musical voices in music, through our podcast, website, commissioning projects, and more. I'm Carrie Blosser.
Ashley Killam 0:15
And I'm Ashley Killam. Join us on our journey as we speak with composers, creators, performers, historians and music educators about the topics important to them and musics betterment.
We are so excited to welcome our guest today to talk to. Cait Nishimura is a Canadian composer based in Waterloo, Ontario. Her music, often inspired by nature and influenced by minimalism and pop music, has established her as a prominent voice in the concert band community. Cait's music has become increasingly popular among educational music programs, as well as within the professional new music scene, with new works being regularly commissioned and performed by ensembles and individuals around the world. We are so excited to talk with you today.
Cait Nishimura 1:06
Thank you for having me.
Carrie Blosser 1:07
Thank you so much for joining us. We want to just start off with kind of askingyou, kind of how your formative start as a performer, and we'd love to, for you to share with us how that impacts your creative process now as a composer and performer and a lot of different idioms.
Cait Nishimura 1:26
Yeah, for sure. I think, you know, when I started playing music as an as an individual, but also as part of an ensemble when I was in elementary school and middle school, I think back to that a lot, as I'm working as a composer, now. It helps to inform my perspective, I think, as the person to create the music that people in that position, now are able to play. You know, I think any composer who's never played in the kind of ensemble that they're writing for is at a disadvantage, at least in some way. Because I see it as being, you know, I remember what it was like to be playing the bass clarinet in the center of the ensemble in the center of the band, and thinking about how boring it was to just have to play whole notes the whole time, and, you know, never get the melody. So that really informs the kind of music that I write when I'm working with, let's say, a piece for middle school band. Now, I'm thinking about how can I keep all of these people engaged and interested in what they're doing. And, you know, of course, somebody has to play the whole notes, somebody has to play the baseline, someone has to rest at all times, you know, but I like to be as equitable as I can be in thinking about that, because I know what it's like to be in the shoes of, you know, the low winds of an ensemble. And similarly, my experience as a teacher, as a conductor really helps me to keep those things in mind when I'm writing music that I know is going to be studied by a conductor. And I've made sure to put notes in the piece so that they can understand what my intention was behind the piece what my inspiration was. So they can then share that with their students or with their musicians, I try to be as clear as possible in my scores and parts because I know what it's like to be on the podium. I know what it's like to be in the chairs. I know what it's like to be in the audience. And I think that just thinking about the perspective of everybody who's involved in the music making process is helpful. You know, for me as a composer, it makes me better at what I do to just remember what it's like to be the people that are involved.
Ashley Killam 3:37
So something that's been a little more popular this year, flexible works and adaptable works, and you have one piece Into the Blue that's this four part flexible piece. We'd love to hear your thoughts on starting, I mean writing a flex work as a composer and some of the challenges when you don't necessarily know the instrumentation you're writing for.
Cait Nishimura 4:00
Yeah, absolutely. It is a whole other world for sure. I actually have two flex pieces available, now since we last talked. I released another one called Alpine Meadow, and it was arranged for flex band by my friend Kaitlin Bove. So the whole process of creating an arrangement for flexible band or flexible ensemble of an existing work is a little bit different from creating an original flexible piece, a piece that was designed for that purpose, you know, all along compared to something that existed in my mind one way and I'm now adapting it to be something else. I think those processes are a little bit different. Basically, you know, it involves in either case, a little bit of a release of control, not that being a composer is about being controlling in any way. But I think I do have a vision of what a piece will feel like and sound like and look like and the overall experience that I'm able to curate through, you know, assigning specific melodies to specific instruments or voices and deciding on which instruments will best represent the color or the mood or whatever it is that I'm trying to represent. And the idea of having to give up that control, I guess, that's the only word I can come up with, it sounds like such a, an aggressive way of talking about it. But you know, to maintain the artistic, artistic integrity, I suppose, of my ideas, knowing that in a flexible format, every single version of this piece is going to be different, every single performance is unique. And I've had to wrap my head around, embracing that uniqueness and being really excited about the idea that every single time anyone approaches this piece, it'll be different. And you know, How exciting is that? How cool is that, that it's fresh and new every single time, I've had to do a little bit of a, a mental mentality flip, I suppose. Because I'm so used to paying such close attention to knowing that I want there to be two French horns doing these two notes. And so to let go of that, and go well, it could be to have anybody playing these notes, it's, it's a little bit different for me in the creative process.
I'm working on, I'm just finishing up my first original piece for flexible ensemble. So I like this better, I think, than taking something that exists and creating a flexible version of it, I think I'm enjoying the process more of creating something brand new, that was always supposed to be done in this format. Because I can think more about it as almost like composing for choir, just just really taking an SATB kind of structure. And knowing that these are the melodies, these are the supporting roles, here's the rhythmic drive that's going you know, and going into that process, knowing that it's going to be different every time really changes the way that I write it in the first place, and keeping things a little bit more open ended. So that piece is called Beneath the Canopy, and it was a commission, so it's not available yet at this very moment, but as soon as the commissioning ensemble plays it, then it'll be available to others. And I really enjoyed that process. So as much as it's been a bit of a mental game, for me to figure out how I feel about all of this, I really see the value in having this kind of music, not just for the pandemic. But you know, even beyond, I think there are small schools, there are ensembles with unconventional instrumentation or a lack of funding or support, you know, and so they're working with different situations. And I think that ensembles like that, or individuals like that will really benefit from having music that's more flexible, even once the pandemic is not affecting so much what we do in the classroom and onstage.
Carrie Blosser 8:07
Yeah, absolutely. I taught middle school/high school band for a little while before I do what I do now. But it's it was always a challenge when I was trying to find pieces for a really small school, kind of in the middle of nowhere, and everyone was at a different level. So I know those will be very valuable to a lot of people.
Cait Nishimura 8:25
Yeah, exactly.
Carrie Blosser 8:27
So you self publish all of your works. And we'd love to ask you like your decision to do do that specifically. And then as well, you write a lot of compositions for younger works. So we'd love to hear kind of your choices in doing that, how that kind of evolved, and maybe some if there were some, maybe obstacles in the way for yourself or for other people that are interested in doing similar things.
Cait Nishimura 8:53
Yeah, for sure. I chose to self publish my music, mostly because it was the only option that that really felt right for me. I know that there are lots of big publishing companies out there that are doing a lot to expose new music to new audiences. And I really see the value in working with an organization that can represent you and can help to get your music in, in the hands of the right people. And, you know, there are a lot of pros and cons, I think on both sides of this scenario. But for me, self publishing means that I get to stay as connected as possible with the people who are bringing my music to life. And so I think about the idea of people purchasing my music, but not knowing about it, you know that I might not find out who these people are. And that makes me sad; that makes me feel like I'm missing part of the equation because for me, as a composer, I rely so heavily on performers to to bring my ideas into the real world, otherwise they would just live in my mind. So I think the, the exchange between composer and performer and audience and listeners, you know, I, I really value that. So I think self publishing is one of the ways that I can really maintain that close connection. When I see that an order has come in through my website, that someone's purchased my music and maybe it's in a new country, or state, or somewhere that my music hasn't been performed yet, I can reach out to them directly and say, you know, thank you for for choosing to program my music and if you have any questions about it, or if you want to do a video conference with your ensemble or something, let me know. And a lot of the times people take me up on that, and it is extra work for me to have to maintain the business side/administrative side of being a composer, it's a lot of work. And I think that's maybe the trade off for some people and working with an organization who can take all of that work off their plate, and they can just focus on creating. I really see, you know, I can see that side of it as well. But I think for me, just having that priority in mind that I want to stay connected with the people that are playing my music, I want to set the example for students and teachers and everybody that you don't have to do things the way they've always been done. And the easy way or the more obvious way is not always the best way. Sometimes it is. But for me, it really wasn't. And so I created a way that you know, a path for myself that felt better than the options that were in front of me. And I also get to keep more of my money. That's you know, another side of self publishing too, of course, is that the average, you know, cut that a composer makes is not very much when going a traditional route. So I think it's important just to show people that there are other ways of making this work. None of them are easy, but for me, this is what feels good.
So on the note of writing for younger ensembles, or educational ensembles, I was a teacher first. I have an undergrad in music education. And before I realized that my dream to be a composer could be a real thing, I sort of had to convince myself that there might be other options that would still check some of the boxes for me in terms of living a fulfilling life. So I had my mind set on, I'm going to be a music teacher, I'm going to be a band director. And that will allow me to write music for my students, arrange the pop songs that they like, for the instrumentation that we have, you know, I kind of, I made it makes sense for me. And I did that for a couple years and I really loved it. And so in, in making the decision to go full time as a composer, I knew that it was important that I maintained that identity for myself as well, that being you know, a former middle school band director, being an educator in my in my mind and my heart, you know, it's important, I think that I stay true to that in some way. And so writing music for those kinds of communities, makes me feel like I'm still able to reach people in that stage of musical development. I'm still able to make an impact on young musicians and show you know, their adults and their communities that music is important. And I think as much as it was hard to leave that whole world behind, I haven't really left it behind because I think my reach is even greater now than it would have been if I had continued doing that. So I've found kind of a perfect hybrid now of the things that are important to me. So that's why I do that.
Carrie Blosser 13:50
Speaking of that perfect hybrid, we're going to listen to Cait Nishimura's Alpine Meadow, which was recorded completely virtually with some of her friends and colleagues.
Ashley Killam 17:16
And so some of your works, that you've, I know you've talked with students about and that you're open about, some of your works really connect to just environmental and sustainability and mental health awareness and you use your music to advocate for that, which is pretty unique. Could you talk a little bit maybe about some specific pieces? Or just how, how that all came to be?
Cait Nishimura 17:46
Sure. Yeah, I think, you know, environmentalism is just really important to me, it always has been, I can't think of a time in my life when nature wasn't the most important thing to me, other than music. And I think they really go so well together, I'm inspired by nature, I love to go to new places, and really experience what it's like to be in a different kind of environment. I've developed a lot of respect for, you know, just appreciating different ecosystems and recognizing that there are species that only live in one place in the world and you know, getting to visit that place and interact with, with that particular plant or something, it sounds so silly. But when you think about how interconnected the world is, it's so important that we take care of those environments. And so, just with that being so important to me, I think it's natural that I've been writing music about the topic that I've been writing music inspired by nature, right from the beginning. I found, my parents found one of the first pieces of music in air quotes that I wrote when I was 10 years old. And it was about all the animals that I saw in the backyard. And I didn't actually know how to write any music notation so I made my own. And there's this whole series of symbols of what meant what and, you know, so that just proves to me that I've basically always been trying to interpret, that the natural world and the things around me through music, through sound, so it's just always been the way I operate, I think. And I think that as a composer now and the more known I become, the more people discover my music, the more I realized that it's important to, to use my platform, to use my voice, to set an example and to spark conversations, to get people thinking about things, reflecting on things in a different way. And so I know in this you know, modern age, a lot of people have lost touch with nature. A lot of people have become dependent on technology and have found things to occupy themselves that have nothing to do with the outside world. And I think that if my music can remind people of the beauty of the natural world, at a bare minimum, I'm happy with that. If it's just people having a moment of going, Oh, yeah, forests are pretty nice, and that's, that's where it stops, I'm fine with that. But if we can take it one step further, and maybe that piece prompts a discussion in a classroom, or at a performance, about how important it is that we can serve these natural areas, and, you know, writing a piece about the redwoods. And then, you know, adding a note in the program notes to say something like, did you know that 95% of these forests are gone. And so you know, what's left, we have to take care of, and what's left, yes, inspired me and brings tourists from all over the world to see every year. But it's so important that we take care of it, because almost all of it is gone already. And, you know, just starting to get people to think about these things, if I have the opportunity to be part of that, to influence the way people shift their perspective on the natural world's on taking better care of it being more sustainable, making some choices intentionally to protect the world that we call home, you know, that's a real privilege, I think, for me to be able to influence those kinds of reflections and an actions as well.
So that's one of the ways that I do that, through my music. I've also started to attach charitable donations to some of my pieces. So I have a few pieces that if you, if anyone buys a copy, a certain percentage of sales, go towards an organization that aligns with my own personal values and goes along with the topic of the piece. And so I think, and it's out of my own money. It's not like I increase the price, you know, to accommodate for that it's, I've chosen to give a portion of the money that I make on the sales to an organization that I think is important and doing the work that I'm not able to single handedly. So that's one of the ways that I contribute to that as well.
And on the note of mental health, you know, it's it's similar, I think we all have mental health, we don't all necessarily have mental illness, but we all have mental health. And I think it's important that we speak more openly about it and start to remove some of the stigma, and just open up a dialogue around things that are more common than we probably think. So I have a piece called Tundra, just as an example, that was commissioned to be on a program on a recital of music that was all about the experience of living with depression, and as a composer, living with depression, you know, I it was, it was a great honor to write this piece. But it was also incredibly emotionally demanding. It was a very vulnerable thing for me to represent my own personal experience through a piece of music that other people would play and spend time with and listen to. So that was a very difficult process, but in doing so I, I knew that if this could start to, like I said, open up some conversations about this topic. You know, let's say someone's just in the audience. And they haven't really thought about this very much. But they like the piece and it's nice, and then they learn what it's about. And then they go, Oh, that's interesting, I never would have thought that this composer would be so open about this, or I've met this person, and she seems so happy. And I never would have thought that this is what's going on behind the scenes, you know, and so to just really be open and set the example for other people that, that it's okay, you can you can do both. You can live with mental illness, and you can also be successful and you can also chase a dream. I think it's important to set that example for people at all stages of life.
Carrie Blosser 24:03
Yeah, thank you so much. That's, I love that if I never knew, I never would have thought - I feel like that's such a great way to start the ball rolling for some people.
Cait Nishimura 24:17
Absolutely.
Carrie Blosser 24:18
Just think outside of maybe like our very small world or bubble that we live in. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. I'm going to go listen to this piece again.
You talked about this just a little bit before but um, are there projects that you're currently working on? And you talked about the the commission that's going that's going on now for the flex, flex parts that will be available in the future, but we'd love to share with our listeners, any other projects that you're working on that might be coming coming this year or next year?
Cait Nishimura 24:54
Yeah. So my number one project right now and this is probably not the answer you're expecting but my my number one thing right now is prioritizing, nurturing my inner artist. So what I mean by that is thinking about, less less about this being my job and thinking less about my career and thinking more about what did it feel like when I first started writing music when I when I was 12 years old, and I was writing songs, and I was dreaming that maybe someday, I would sing them on a stage and some people would sing them back to me, you know, thinking about those dreams that I used to have. So this year, I'm really trying to just prioritize, remembering what that felt like, and paying more attention to the creative process.
So I'm hoping to start to record my first album of songs that I wrote a long time ago, and kind of just tucked away and didn't do anything with them. And then I became a composer. And it's interesting, because being a songwriter and being a composer are not all that different. But I've kind of found a career through the more formal way of music making and that other people can actually see the music physically in front of them on their stand, you know, and I've been thinking a lot about why is that so different from writing songs, and giving people you know, a physical thing to listen to, or a digital thing to listen to. And I've been so afraid of doing that for so long, but I think I've proven to myself or the community has proven to me that my voice is one worth sharing and worth listening to. So, you know, previously, it's been my voice through my compositional voice, but I'm hoping to use my actual physical human voice and record. Yeah, some songs for the first time ever. So that's one one thing that I'm working on this year, I also have a number of Concert Band commissions that are really important to me. I can't share who they are for right now. But there are a couple that are just, you know, really exciting, and keep me inspired and motivated. Even though we don't know exactly what the future holds. I'm going to write the music anyway, and be excited about it anyway. And the other thing is, I'm actually going to be joining a friend of mine in hosting a podcast of our own. I've been really excited to be a guest on several podcasts, like this one, and I really enjoy just speaking to people about music. So this will be a new adventure for me, on the other side of the interview process, asking the questions as opposed to answering them. So that's, that's another thing that's kind of on the go for me right now. The podcast is called The Band Room.
Carrie Blosser 27:47
Excellent. We'll make sure that we link it.
Ashley Killam 27:49
And then Are there any besides your new podcast? Are there any resources you'd like to promote? Get out into the world, either your resources or things you found useful?
Cait Nishimura 28:04
Sure. one that comes to mind is ...And We Were Heard, and I'm sure this is familiar to people in this community. If it's not, definitely go check it out. They are an organization that essentially plays matchmaker between composers who have written music and need to get a recording, and ensembles who are willing to be part of that process and help to create recordings for underrepresented composers. And I think that that's just really good work. It goes along really well with what the two of you are doing with your project as well. And, you know, the more people that are on board with this mission to change the way people think about what contemporary music is, and what, what composers look like, and things like that, I think the more the merrier in this group. So that would be one.
I'll also just give a shout out to some of the organizations that my pieces benefit through the sales of my music. One is the Nature Conservancy of Canada. So several of my pieces have like, you know, $1 or $5 from this piece goes to this. And we don't have a formal affiliation, I'm not sponsored or endorsed or anything like that. I just think that the work that they do is really important. To me, it personally benefits me in that I get to explore the conservation areas and learn about the ecosystems that are a part of, you know, my area and things like that. So that's one organization that's important to me personally. I also really encourage people if anyone's interested in learning more about nature and remembering, you know that that's important here. You know, Ontario parks, which is my local Provincial Park System is important to me, but I encourage people to look up their local park system in, in every state, province, country, I'm sure wherever you're listening, there is some sort of local park system that works to protect the natural areas nearby. And most of the time, they offer education programs too, where they will teach individuals and groups through tours or classes and things like that about, you know, learning about the different things in that area, in the park, or in your neighborhood. So, I know it's not music related, but I think it's just really important that people spend some time thinking about that
Carrie Blosser 30:34
Huge fan, all of the parks. Okay, we talked about groups and organizations and resources. So this is the question we ask everyone. What is on your music stand this week? And how are you diversifying your stand?
Cait Nishimura 30:52
Great question. So I'll be honest, I don't have a music stand up right now, really, I'm working so much on creating music for others to play that. I haven't been, you know, practicing a whole lot myself. But I've been doing a lot of listening. And I think that counts too. I think that's important. So I'll just say that. One goal that I set for myself this year, is to spend more time listening to the music of other composers to get out of my own head, my own ideas a little bit and listen to what other people have been doing. So every day I've been trying to just listen to a different piece by a living composer, or sometimes they're people that I know, sometimes not. This week in particular, I enjoyed listening to a piece called Beauty Broken by Nicole Piunno. And I am familiar with some of her work, think she's a trumpet player, actually. But I hadn't listened to that piece yet and I really loved it and it made me think you know, I can't wait for everybody to be back, playing together, performing together so that big pieces like that can be shared with larger audiences.
Carrie Blosser 32:03
To find out more about Cait Nishimura and her music, check out the podcast description, and also our website for links to more information about Cait.
Ashley Killam 32:16
Thank you so much for listening to Diversify the Stand. I am Ashley.
Carrie Blosser 32:21
And I'm Carrie. If you'd like to support us and our projects, check out our Patreon www.patreon.com/diversify_the_stand. Also the link is in our podcast description.
Ashley Killam 32:36
And a huge thank you to Trevor Weston and Whitney George for allowing us to use their compositions in our podcast. The musical introduction is Trevor's trumpet duet Fanfare for Changes and the ending music is Whitney's Incantations for trumpet and piano. Both composers websites are also listed in the description.
Carrie Blosser 32:55
Until next time, what's on your stand?