Episode 2.1 - Christine Palmer
Our first episode for Season 2 is Christine Palmer, trumpet player, Harrelson Trumpet manufacturer, and welder in the Denver, Colorado area! We talk with Christine about representation in instrument building, finding your niche in music, and freelancing. Transcripts to all podcast episodes are created by Hollyn Slykhuis and are posted on our website!
To learn more about Christine and all recommended groups and resources, check out the links below!
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Full Transcript
Carrie Blosser 0:03
Welcome to Diversify the Stand. Together we build a community to listen and learn from the stories and experiences of passionate musicians. I'm Carrie Blosser.
Ashley Killam 0:12
And I'm Ashley Killam.
In our second season, we talked with musicians, performers, educators, historians, and entrepreneurs to expand how we think of the music we perform and follow non-traditional career paths.
Carrie Blosser 0:25
Season Two kicks off with our guest Christine Palmer. Christine is a trumpet player and instrument maker based in Denver, Colorado. These days, her performing career centers around funk, jazz, and commercial projects, including A Big Old Pony, Emily Manuel, The Ghost of Joseph Buck, and Floria. She also composes scores for live performance with silent film shows in the Denver area, and is a welder fabricator with Dirty Hands Fabrication.
So welcome, Christine, to our show.
Christine Palmer 0:53
Hey, Carrie and Ashley, I'm so excited to be on this, the work that you're doing is incredible. I'm a huge fan. I'm really happy to be here.
Ashley Killam 1:00
Thanks so much. We want to start with just hearing a little bit about how you got started in music and kind of to where you are today.
Christine Palmer 1:07
Sure. So taking it back, all the way back. My mom was a piano teacher and a music teacher. So I was kind of lucky to be surrounded by that from an early age, she started teaching me piano lessons. And there are always opportunities through church to sing or play. So I was surrounded by a lot of music. And then my dad's trumpet was sitting around somewhere in the house. So at the time that, you know, school band started up, then I had a trumpet already set for me to go. And it was kind of a short journey to start picking that up. I fell in love with the trumpet really quickly. So I think it was a combination of being extremely shy as a kid, like that kid that sits in the back of the classroom and reads a book and never talks to anybody. And the trumpet is so loud and bombastic and it, like, commands attention. It's like something that I could do outside of my comfort zone to push myself. So yeah, I loved the trumpet all the way through high school. And then going into college, I studied physics, and kind of initially thought I was going to be some sort of scientist because to me, that meant I could seclude myself in a lab and do experiments and never have to talk to anyone. But I also loved the trumpet. I love performing. And I think that music love fostered a lot of connection. And I was sort of in between deciding whether to go after a science path or a music path in college, and I decided to try grad school for music thinking that I could always fall back on the science and engineering side. And I did, I went to CU Boulder, I absolutely loved studying music, focused primarily on classical with a little bit of jazz, and then kind of among, or in that time, that grad school time, I got some great advice about finding your niche in music, music performance, especially as a trumpet player, as I started to realize that there are hundreds, 1000s, of trumpet players with this exact same cookie cutter college training regimen who are now competing for, you know, the dozen orchestral positions available in the country. And someone was talking to me about combining those aspects of yourself that are that are unique, your different passions and your skills outside of trumpet playing to kind of market yourself better or look for something that fits you specifically. That's when I really started to dive into trumpet building, manufacturing, and learning about what was going on in that sphere.
Carrie Blosser 3:35
That's so awesome. You’re just the coolest, you’re the coolest person ever. So you mentioned just a little bit earlier about kind of starting in that, like, the cookie cutter, like, classical, doing a little bit of your science background. I'd love to hear about your experiences, kind of starting in classical and then moving into what you do now, which is predominantly a non-classical music scene.
Christine Palmer 3:55
Yeah, there's definitely a transition period when you're in school for music, you usually specialize in either classical or jazz, sometimes both. And there's not a whole lot of introduction to the recording scene or commercial scene outside of those two genres unless you're in a specific commercial program. So I had primarily classical training, but after school, after I left, I continually found opportunities in classical, jazz, especially funk music, and I really fell in love with funk, progressive funk, metal influenced funk, jazzy funk, just the fact that it can make people dance and make music nerds excited when it's done really well. It was just a ton of fun. I grew to love being on stage and kind of embodying a persona on that stage, having more freedom compared to the classical world, having more freedom to meld genres, to mix things together, cross-pollinate, hybridize things that I loved about Mahler or Freddie Hubbard and turn it into something that anyone could groove to. It felt really refreshing after getting used to that classical approach, or at least the traditional classical approach of kind of emulating a genre that already existed. And for me, it was refreshing to try new different ideas. And it felt like it was reaching a wider audience in the commercial realm. So classical training through undergrad and grad school definitely made me a much better player, I totally appreciate it. I learned a lot of the standards, things that are expected, but it also reinforced that certain style and approach. I know you've talked about it a little bit before on the podcast, that there's kind of a gatekeeper aspect to going through the traditional music school approach of “You should know these canon repertoire before you advance to the next level.” Yeah, outside of this, I think it felt easier to push the envelope and be a little more creative. I mean, there's also a call for us to look at that classical work, the classical world, and see what needs to be changed about it, which I know is part of what you're doing through Diversify the Stand.
Ashley Killam 5:58
For sure, definitely. And I love that there's just so much and it's all these things that people don't teach you in undergrad and people don't teach you in grad school that this is like a really realistic possibility if you're into it, and you don't have to just sit in an orchestra or have a private studio at a university. With all the groups that you're in, because there's a bunch that Carrie listed off, could you give us just a little, like, elevator pitch for each one and kind of, like, the gist of each one and what style they focus on.
Christine Palmer 6:30
Sure. Right now I play with Big Old Pony, which is a Denver instrumental funk band, all original, I would say kind of jazz-oriented funk. And we're just about to release our first EP in the next month or two. Keep a lookout for that. I've been playing with Emily Manuel, who is a musician originally out of the UK, but currently based in Denver, and she does this awesome combination of really classical jazz and folk music, lyrically focused but really musically complex. And she needed a lot of trumpet on her album, so we've been collaborating quite a bit. The Ghost of Joseph Buck is a local band, I would call sort of mariachi-Western oriented, has some of the spaghetti Western vibes from old Western movies with a lot of lyrics about open space and renegade, finding your way sort of thing. They're really fun. The Ghost of Joseph Buck just released, I think our second full album in October. I also personally write for silent film orchestras and have really enjoyed doing that, working with local theaters to either find silent films that are on their programming or pick films that I am intrigued by or I enjoy, and organizing live performances to go along with the film showing. So that can be more classically oriented. I mean, we've done some straight up funk tunes, we've recorded an original kind of folk-ish song that fit with Lois Weber’s Shoes from from 1916, the old feminist film, and so that work has kind of molded and changed over time so that I include different musicians every time, just depending on what the film seems to require. I think this is a good time, I think this year is going to officially launch the Quackastra, the name of this sort of melding, changing group of musicians that can play for different silent films, as needed. And then I also do some just studio recording work, I recorded with Florio, which is an awesome local Denver band. It's a little bit the darker side of maybe mariachi Western klezmer type music. They're really fantastic. John Statz is a local folk musician, so I’m on a bunch of his music. And they both—Floria and John— released a new record last year, otherwise is just as things come up, play with Mass Hipsteria, which is kind of a cover funk band, dance band, they're a good time, Fred Savage and the Unbeatables is the best wedding band. If you ever need a wedding band in Minnesota, they are an absolutely fun time. And really, whatever else comes up, that is a, that has good people, good music, or good pay, that's my approach to finding gigs is I want two of those to intersect. I think that's a decent approach. But within that, too, there are lots of opportunities that come up all the time and deciding whether or not to get involved with something, I think is an opportunity for us as musicians to to look at what we're prioritizing in our performance career. You know, what players are involved with this, what do the lyrics say? What is the background of the music, the cultural background of the music that we will be performing? What audience are we seeking in welcoming with that type of music? So once we're at the point of, sort of, saturation and being able to say yes or no to a project, then we can take a look at what's involved in that project and what value it is either to society or to me in a performance career, especially as a trumpet player, which is, it has been a traditionally male, traditionally mostly white performance space, although there are a ton of incredible Black jazz musicians, the juxtaposition of being a female, queer person in this traditional male space, it feels incredibly empowering, trailblazing, it feels like setting a trend or, like, defying some expectation, but also intersecting those identities with being a white person means I also get to do the work to hold that space, hold that door open, which has been traditionally closed or dismissive for certain genders, or certain backgrounds, certain income levels, and step aside to welcome more diverse perspectives into that space. So something that I'm trying to navigate personally is finding that intersection of our individual identity, you know, within different careers, even within building career within a performance career, within every sphere of influence that we have, we all have, number one, challenges, marginalization to navigate, whether it's mental or physical difference, income, or historical access to income, gender and sexuality spectrum, race, religion, language, navigating how all those perspectives shaped us in our opportunities, and, two, we also have different levels of power or privilege that we've inherited or accumulated, that we can use to expand and welcome more people into those spheres we inhabit. So we sort of have this dual task all the time to be aware of the ways that we are disenfranchised or marginalized and break through those stereotypes, and also be aware of the power influence that we have, and use that to step aside, make more space, hold the door open for new talents and perspectives. Case in point: Diversify the Stand. I think that's exactly what y'all are doing. And it's super impressive, really inspiring that you have this going on.
Carrie Blosser 12:08
Yeah, I think your points about, like, we have choice, right? Who we work with, what, you know, like if we accept a project for the pay, do we like the music that we're doing? And I think there's a lot of power in that. And as, like, people move through their careers, making sure you keep remembering that you have choices. And, you know, where you put your money, where your values are saying, like, this is what we should do next, I think that's really important. And that we have that our whole careers, maybe not as much in the beginning, because you're just trying to get gigs and get known and whatever. But yeah, there's a lot of empowerment, I think, in that.
Christine Palmer 12:44
Totally.
Carrie Blosser 12:45
But another area where there are not a whole lot of women would be in the building of instruments and kind of in that music, sales, and construction. So I would love to hear— all of the groups you talked about before are things that you do, but your day job is working for Harrelson trumpets and building and doing all sorts of amazing things there. So I'd love to hear more about Christine's work with Harrelson trumpets, a little bit about the trumpets themselves, and kind of like what your day to day looks like.
Christine Palmer 13:15
Absolutely. So yeah, my main job full-time during the day, I work as a trumpet finisher and shop assistant at Harrelson trumpets. Overall, we've been around for about 25 years, we're celebrating our 25th anniversary this year, but we build custom trumpets to fit every individual player, and we also use a combination of CAD design, CNC machining, and then hand building, hand soldering, hand laser welding, hand grinding and sanding and finishing, to create really extremely high quality trumpets that fit each player's needs both sonically and visually. We're an extremely small shop, there are three of us right now. So my job day to day can include anything from finishing a trumpet— taking a trumpet that that Jason Harrelson builds, and then I will do the complete finishing work, so removing all of the solder from the build process, sanding out any machining marks from when the pieces have come off the CNC lathe or CNC mill, grinding, brushing the trumpet so that it visually appears perfect, or prepping it for silver plating, gold plating, whatever finish the client requests. So that includes a lot of shop work, tools, abrasives, familiarity with, you know, different grits and different shapes, and what can create the finish that I'm looking for. But another day might include prepping a giant batch of mouthpiece parts to go to plating and just polishing all those parts, prepping different pieces. And then some days it might be, you know, giving tours to someone that's visiting from out of town, answering the phone, running to the post office, figuring out our sales for the past month, ordering supplies, like, everything that helps a small business run. But yeah, primarily I am kind of the shop assistant person that assists Jason with building the parts. So it's definitely my dream job, like, this job doesn't exist, barely anywhere, like, first of all building instruments. Second of all, building custom instruments, and designing them in CAD using CNC technology, learning about machining and tooling. That aspect is also something that Harrelson is pushing the entire brass instrument technology genre forward in that way, we're doing a lot of things that are cutting edge, that are changing the way that the trumpet is built and sounds. So it's really, really exciting. I absolutely love my job. It's fantastic. But every day is different, every day is still training, I’m learning new things about laser engraving or 3D printing every single day. Hopefully, I never, you know, hit a wall because that means that I'm no longer learning or no longer helping to innovate. One awesome thing about the instrument building career is that it could be seen as awesome or as daunting. But there really is not a school that you can go to for training to become an instrument builder. That doesn't exist, I looked for it, you can, there are several wonderful instrument repair schools. There’s a great one in Red Wing, Minnesota. And also, in Colorado, CIOMIT, is just south of Denver, but they mostly focus on repairs, and pretty much any of the instrument makers that I have met or know of are really self-trained. They saw some sort of opportunity or niche or something that was missing in their individual instrument or their performance career. They experimented with fabrication techniques and wood and metals and strings and all sorts of things, and kind of made their own way. In one way, that's a little bit daunting, because it means a lot of the people looking to get into this field have to figure everything out for themselves. But it also means there are fewer barriers to entry compared to the kind of expected requirement of getting a doctorate in music in order to enter an orchestra or to teach at a high level. That's pretty cool. And I know that we also at Harrelson, we have a long term goal of creating more of a training ground for instrument makers, not just brass makers, but long term having a kind of symposium or conference for instrument builders, to have a competition to encourage, you know, young or new instrument builders to push the envelope and try new things. And maybe a school someday for people to share metal and wood and sonic physics, fabrication techniques, all of that, how they can translate into building high quality instruments. You also mentioned, and it's completely 100% true, that almost all instrument builders are white cis het males, they're doing awesome work. But there's not a whole lot of women, queer, BIPOC people creating instruments, pushing the genre, there are a few awesome ones and like, I can literally only think of a few off the top of my head. But I did some more research to check out what's going on. So Warren Shadd Pianos, as far as I can tell, is the first Black large scale instrument manufacturer. Literally that's crazy. The first one, right? He's out of DC. And he makes incredibly well-crafted durable pianos focused on, really on sound projection. He even models piano benches with subwoofers in the bench, so you can, like, feel what's going on with your piano playing, like you're playing with a giant orchestra and you're doing a, I don’t know, concerto and you're being drowned out by everything. You could still feel it in the bench. That's pretty cool. Black Swamp Percussion is out of Michigan. And so Eric Sooy uses wooden carbon fiber to build his drums. There is, of course, a giant tradition of Spanish flamenco guitar builders, but they are majority men. And I found a woman, Ana Espinosa Rodriguez, who is a flamenco luthier in Granada. And there's also a Brooklyn lutherie, which is women-owned in Brooklyn. They create guitars, violins, they work on all strings. Lisa Hahn is also out of New York City, a bass luthier. It seems like there may be a few more, at least female luthiers that exists. So definitely check out She Shreds, which is sort of a compository of all of these awesome female luthiers. But yeah, the point is like, we need way more diversity in our design sphere in order to create instruments that are different than have been built for the past 300 years, that push us forward and let us create new music.
Carrie Blosser 20:13
100%.
Ashley Killam 20:14
Yeah, that's so cool. And now kind of in this similar non-traditional route that you've come into, tell us about this new welding position and what you do there because that's super cool.
Christine Palmer 20:28
Yeah, welding is really fun. So, for me personally, 2020 provided a lot of hardships, I'm sure we've all experienced them. But also a lot of opportunities for reflection, reshaping, rebuilding, thinking about ourselves in the future. So for me, without gigs and with some work slowing down, I definitely needed to pick up a second job. And I happen to know a lot of queer welders around Denver. Incidentally, I just asked around about metalworking opportunities, and multiple people directed me to this gem of a welding shop called Dirty Hands Fabrication. So it's a small custom welding shop. We've done all sorts of things from artistic metal designs, restaurant signs, custom gates, planters, really whatever people were looking at, we'd find a way to build it and fulfill their needs, which does exist, you know, quite a bit there are custom metal fabricators all around. But what really makes this place unique is the owner, Neal’s dedication to hiring and working with women, queer people, people of color, I think that's pretty rare in the skilled labor fields. So I was able to pick up part time work with him, learn a new trade, have a ton of fun, yeah, I highly recommend welding. It's really rewarding. I mean, it sort of aligns with other things I was doing already that, like, at the beginning of the day, you get a thing that is an idea, or it partially exists, and at the end of the day, you have made a thing, brought it into the world, and it exists. And you’re like, “Yeah, I built that. It's here.” It's really rewarding. And if you're in Denver, we also host Women in Welding classes to give people an introduction to welding. So check it out.
Carrie Blosser 22:16
I'm coming. Next time I’m in Denver, I want to weld some stuff.
Christine Palmer 22:20
Cool, great.
Ashley Killam 22:20
Our last question that we ask everyone at the end of this podcast is what's on your music stand this week? And how are you diversifying your stand?
Christine Palmer 22:28
So as we're recording this episode, it is beginning of April 2021, the music world feels like it's beginning to breathe again and, like, start to open up really slowly. I think I've booked about three outdoor gigs in the past few days. So that's exciting. Groups are starting to get back together to rehearse. So on my stand right now, I have a bunch of original tunes to work up and get performance ready. Ghost of Joseph Buck has a couple of new songs in the works, so I'm thinking about trumpet parts to add to those. Emily Manuel is looking for a brass chorale for one of her songs, so I'm going to combine some trumpet and flugelhorn and trombone on that. I'm working on Chick Corea's Spain for an outdoor jazz show. And Big Old Pony also has some new song ideas. So in considering how I'm diversifying that stand, I'm looking at the origin of a lot of the musical ideas that I'm working with, for instance, using a lot of mariachi music for the Ghost of Joseph Buck. But thinking about where that style came from, and what exactly I'm wanting to say when I use that style. You know, they have a song about the Sand Creek massacre that happened in Denver. So thinking about how we're honoring that history, or what we're saying with that song, researching into why Chick Corea wrote the song Spain and what cultural musical styles he used, or Black Orpheus I've been working on, you know, what did that mean to the original composer when it was written for the movie Black Orpheus in 1959, working on chorales for Emily, you know, thinking about tradition, traditional Western white voice leading, but also thinking about what I'm assuming about the listeners ear, and how can I inject different musical variation into that expectation? So thinking a lot about musical influences intersecting with cultural history as I'm writing these songs. That's how I'm working to diversify my stand.
Carrie Blosser 24:26
Excellent. Thanks so much for sharing. And thanks so much for joining us.
Christine Palmer 24:29
Thank you.
Carrie Blosser 24:30
Links to Christine's website, plus the groups and projects she's a part of are listed in the podcast description.
Ashley Killam 24:35
Thank you for listening to Diversify the Stand. I'm Ashley.
Carrie Blosser 24:38
And I'm Carrie. If you'd like to support us and our projects, find us on social media and visit our website. We now have a store where you can pick up some Diversify the Stand gear.
Ashley Killam 24:48
And as always, a huge thank you to Trevor Weston and Whitney George for allowing us to use their compositions in our podcast. The musical introduction is Trevor's trumpet duet “Fanfare for Changes” and the ending music is Whitney's “Incantations” for trumpet and piano. Both composers’ websites are listed in the podcast description.
Carrie Blosser 25:06
Until next week, what's on your stand?