Episode 3.9 - Yoga for All Musicians

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Full Transcript

Carrie Blosser 0:00

Welcome to the third season of Diversify the Stand. Together, we speak with a wide range of musicians who talk about topics that are important to them. I'm Carrie Blosser.

Ashley Killam 0:08

And I'm Ashley Killam. We're so excited to dive into talks with a whole bunch of guests to see them. If you like following along and are a fan of our podcast, please leave us a five star rating and review.

Well, we welcome our first trio here today, Yoga for All Musicians. Thank you all so much for joining. We can't wait to chat with you.

Claire 0:34

Thank you for having us. We're so excited to be here.

Ashley Killam 0:37

Yeah, so we'd love to start off kind of each one of you talking a little bit about your musical journey into what you currently do.

Brianne 0:45

Yeah, absolutely. I'll go first. So if you can't decipher our voices, I'm Brianne. I'm really excited to be here. My musical journey, it has been a really fun one for me, personally, I play the trumpet, and I started playing the trumpet. When I was in third grade. My dad is a trumpet player was a trumpet player, I suppose. And he was my first teacher. And then I went on to continue playing all through high school, I had some really awesome, awesome mentors and teachers studied with Herb Smith for a really long time. And then went off to my undergrad in - I thought music education - came out with a music performance degree. The Crane School of Music at SUNY Potsdam, I then got my masters at the University of Colorado, which is where I met Carrie. And she helped to name my dog. She named my dog. [laughter] And then got my doctorate in trumpet performance at Arizona State University. And then throughout all of that, I've dealt a lot with some performance injuries, performance anxiety, and other kind of wellness-based things that I was really, really interested in learning more about. I really dove into that research and my masters and my doctorate and started, you know, teaching a lot of clinics on yoga for musicians and ended up teaching - or leading - a lecture at the IWBC Conference in Tempe, which was literally across the street from where I lived. And Amelia was sitting front row [laughter] with a big smile on her face, because she knows no other way, and gave me a huge hug afterwards. And we got coffee and it was really beautiful. And we talked a lot about all of the Yoga for Musicians things and I will kind of let you guys fill in the remainder of that story and let Amelia take it from here.

Amelia 2:46

My story is kind of similar, where I went into my undergrad with one idea and came out completely on the other side. I went into my undergrad as a trombone performance major. And I thought that I was going to go down the professional symphony track. That was my goal. That was what I'd wanted my entire life thus far. And then I really became passionate about teaching. I started teaching private lessons to local high school trombonist and I had a full studio of all girl trombonists. It was just the sweetest thing in the whole world. And I fell in love with that. Along the way, during my undergrad, I went through a performance injury as well. And it was so bad that I had to stop playing my instrument for a while. And that's when I found yoga and how helpful yoga was to just staying balanced, and releasing tension, and helping with performance anxiety. So I became yoga certified the summer before my senior year of college and my entire senior year kind of shifted into me primarily teaching. Teaching yoga, teaching trombone. And so I realized that I wanted to kind of bring this musician's wellness to light in my career. So yeah, that's when I met - well, I believe I met Claire first at TMEA, Texas Music Educators Association. I met her sitting in on a musician's wellness talk at the conference, and it was so fun to meet Claire in person. And then I flew out to Arizona and met Brianne in person. And we, at that point, hadn't collaborated at all the three of us and I was the only one lucky enough to have met both of them. And Brian and I kind of collaborated and then Claire and I talked a lot and I'll let Claire take it from here and kind of finish out the story. [laughter]

Claire 4:42

It's an honor. Hi, I'm Claire. I remember meeting you Amelia, because you had saved me a seat at that lecture. It was Kristin Queen from TCU. She was lecturing about how to teach wellness in your classroom. And I walked in and I was so nervous to meet this like yoga trombone goddess who had such a following on YouTube, and I was like, what does she want to do with me? Like, silly little Claire. And she had saved me a spot right next to her so that we could sit together and watch the lecture. And that is such a perfect example of who Amelia is as a person. So I - my mom is a biochemist. She loves research. And when she had a child - I'm an only child - she took a very research-oriented approach to raising me. And she read a study that said that - I love you, Mom, if you're listening - she read a study that said that children who are engaged in music are much better at math and science when they get older. So when I was five years old, I was in piano lessons, I started taking guitar lessons, vocal lessons, I was doing these recitals at the local mall where I would sing Christmas carols. So I was really involved in music from a really young age. And when I found a middle school band - I literally already cried about this one today - middle school band was like coming home for the first time. Like, this is my family. My band director - like, I've never had a person who wasn't my family believe in me and see me so authentically and so genuinely. And I decided that's what I wanted to be for other people. So I went to school for music education in Arkansas. And then I kind of did the thing where - I have a little shame about this - but there's like, "Oh, I think I'm good at this instrument. So that means that I'm supposed to get a master's degree in it." People who are good, they go to graduate school, right. And so I kind of took this external feedback, and made it my personality, made it who I am still sifting through what that means - and how often I do that in my life. So I got a master's degree in flute performance. And during that master's program, I started experiencing some pretty severe panic attacks and depressive episodes. The isolation of music was just too uncomfortable for me. The hours and hours spent alone criticizing myself started really taking a toll on me as a person and I had to get out of the head to get out of the fields. It was at a point of burnout where I couldn't sustain - even teaching music anymore. So I ended up after a lot of different options, a lot of soul searching, a lot of sobbing hysterically about what my middle school band director would think of me now for leaving the field. I ended up studying to be a marriage and family therapist at Texas Tech. I was accepted into the program there. I graduated in August. I see clients every week. And - thank you - and I feel so incredibly fulfilled in this field. And I was inspired to go into this field because of my experiences in musician's wellness. Because I had wanted to be a yoga teacher, starting when I was like 20 years old. In my undergrad, I noticed how stressed and overwhelmed everyone was, including me. And I thought there's got to be some tool. There's got to be a better way than sleeping in the practice rooms and eating chips out of the vending machine for every meal. Like we have to be able to take care of ourselves, right? So I got certified to teach yoga - much like the other girls did - as an offering to the musician's world. And then I created - as part of a research class - a little Instagram practice room yoga. That was musician's yoga YouTube resources. And there were only two other people - three other people - doing that at the time. And two of them are sitting here with me. We started messaging on Instagram. We became friends on Instagram. I met Amelia. And then we did like a 10 day challenge together, like a back to music school challenge together, where we dropped these videos that you could do for 10 days in a row, that would help you begin the school year in a really grounded way. And we just really loved working together. And when the pandemic hit, Brienne reached out and was like, "Hey, I'm toying with this really small idea. Not a big deal. Not going to be anything too hard, or overwhelming. What if we had like an online platform where musicians could take live yoga classes?". And I was like, "Okay." I remember where I was sitting: in my car, in the parking lot of the middle school where I taught flute lessons, when I got her message. And I was like, "I mean, yeah, I could probably teach a class or two.". And then I don't know how it happened. But suddenly, we were meeting for like, eight hours. I'm sorry - I think we had a five hour meeting one time. We were dealing with LLC stuff. And like setting up our website? And like, how are we going to host this platform? and it just was the - YAM became the platform that we had all been dreaming of, that we didn't know that we'd been dreaming of, I think? I might be speaking for them unnecessarily. But this is what we always wanted, I think, for ourselves. We wanted to feel like we could impact the musician's community and bring wellness, and wholeness, and steadiness to this community in an impactful way. But it was really hard to do it on our own. And when we joined forces, it felt like magic. It still does.

Carrie Blosser 10:00

That's fantastic. That's such a great coming together story. I love it. We touched on this a little bit of how yoga for musicians came together. But I'd love to hear a little bit of kind of maybe some of the early days in your prep and planning. And then why specifically, this very small idea from Dr. Gordon. I'm starting an online platform. Why this was like, I think it's, it's a much bigger thing maybe than you anticipated in a really fantastic way. And what like, why specifically, is yoga for all musicians. So important? Oh, we

Brianne 10:33

have I'm sure all have about 100 answers that are like coming to to the tip of our tongues to talk about because I think that in the moment, I knew that I wanted to continue to offer yoga. So I, when the pandemic hit, I was finishing up my doctorate, and was teaching yoga as much as possible to just like pay for tuition and pay for rent and all that stuff, I was teaching about 18 classes a week, and Pandemic hit, laid off from my yoga teaching job laid off from all my trumpet teaching jobs, I had, first of all, just like nothing to do. And if anybody out there knows me, you know that I can't operate under those conditions. I truly do not know what to do with free time, it makes me anxious and uncomfortable, which we explore another time. So I with my with my idle hands, I decided to gift a bunch of work to these two lovely women, say, Come on this ride with me. I'm really, really interested in seeing what we could build. And I really thought it was just going to be offering some virtual yoga classes, and then, you know, the pandemic is still happening, I thought it was like, Okay, we're gonna do this for a few months, then we'll go back to normal. Clearly that hasn't happened. And we started seeing this, within a month, we started seeing this really beautiful community that we never could have dreamed of growing like really, really, really beautiful community. And, and for reasons beyond the wellness aspect, to be honest, I think one really cool thing is that one of the reasons we got so close, so immediately right at the start of starting this business, is that Amelia came out to us on one of our very first phone calls. And now we have this really beautiful space that I think can provide as a safe space for queer people in the music community, which doesn't necessarily exist a ton, especially a space that is virtual and that anybody around the world can access and know that they'll be safe and seen and held in our in our beautiful little family. So that's one thing that we I don't think expected to be able to or want, you know, that wasn't a goal of ours to create that. But it has come with this journey. And that's been a really, really beautiful thing.

Amelia 12:59

I also think that we don't talk enough about how broken the three of us were, when we found each other, I was going through a separation from my partner of six and a half years that was so traumatizing. Amelia had just come out and was navigating all of the life changes that come with that Brianne was ending her doc doctorate and was trying to work constantly to be able to survive in Arizona. And so we were all kind of at this really interesting turning point in our lives. And I think that that played a role in the way that people interacted with us. I think they could almost sense the kind of rawness and the genuineness and the genuine care that we were putting into Yom but also that like Yom was not only helping them, but it was, it was the thing that saved my life, during that period of living alone, for the first time in years of being without my partner of trying to figure out who I am running this business and connecting with people, for me was was a lifeline, like absolute necessity. And I think that people can sense that. And especially in a time of such collective crisis and collective trauma, where other people were maybe feeling that way they could smell it on us. They could sense it like, oh, they know what it feels like to have your whole world rocked and turned upside down and I can trust them with the reality of how I'm feeling right now and know that it's safe. And I think that's something I really didn't anticipate with yum. I thought we were just gonna be like moving and breathing together. But we ended up crying we cried together all the time and yoga classes and community nights in just the three of us meeting. There's a lot of tears but not in a not in a way that is pressurized or broken hearted but just in a way that's really authentic and genuine. And I think in the world of music, there's this kind of competitive nature of like it's me against you every moment I'm not practicing someone else is and we don't get a lot of time to really see each other and love each other, really radically and authentically without that element of competition. And I don't think that we knew how much the music community needed that something that we're really passionate about is making yoga and wellness really accessible. And when I've done research on musicians, wellness, it's been books that you have to get from the library that are really old. And how do you do a yoga practice when you're also reading about how to do the yoga practice at the same time, or they've been really expensive, like some yoga classes are 30 plus dollars per class, or they've had people teaching the classes who aren't really sensitive to the ways that musicians use their bodies and the places that might be sensitive or tender in their bodies. So we are really passionate about making yoga financially accessible to musicians to making it physically accessible to musicians via zoom, but also providing a lot of cues that can allow for diverse body types and diverse experiences on the mat in a way that I don't think I have seen any other place period.

Ashley Killam 16:09

Amazing. That's wonderful. I also remember seeing a unrelated brand, I remember seeing your presentation on WBC and was like this is the coolest thing. Also, I thought it was super cool that I was like someone has a tattoo that's a brass plate.

Brianne 16:25

I love I love that so much I have like one of my secret little mission or whatever it is to like D stigmatize the classical musicians having ink and you are the first person where you were like your performance where you had your half sleeve just like out I was like, I It made me so happy because I was literally terrified of doing that. Like I was playing a soloist on the opening concert. And I was like, it's my first big thing. And I and I got this ink now. So thank you for that.

Claire 16:54

I also think it's an important element of our community is that, like, the three of us all have a tattoo and exposed tattoo on our arm of a flower. We just recently got a message from someone saying like, I'm having a really hard time as a woman in the music industry. People in my life are telling me that what I post on social media is going to keep me from getting a job that if I expose my body, if I wear a crop top, if I show my tattoos if I show my piercings, if I am drinking, that I'm not going to get a job in a way that feels very different from the way that men are interacted with. And I think that the three of us having exposed tattoos, having facial piercings, being outwardly queer, being willing to just be really raw and vulnerable about what we're experiencing. It also kind of, I don't want to say like we're breaking the stigma, but we are existing in spite of it. And I think that can be inspiring for other people. And also for me to watch these two holy moly, have y'all seen. I wanted to continue on that train of thought because I live in Texas, and I used to teach trombone lessons in the DFW area. And I taught at a school where just five years prior, a teacher was fired for coming out as a lesbian. I worked in a school where that actually happened. And I think what we are doing as being a queer run woman run business is so important for other people that might be looking into this field. And I feel so honored and privileged to be able to hold kind of this space at the forefront of showing people that you can be your true authentic self and it doesn't matter what kind of job you have. Because your your quality as a musician and your quality as a person comes first not what you look like not the people you date, not the tattoos on your body or the color of your hair. But first and foremost your your intelligence and your knowledge and your musicality is what's going to get you places. And I think we're we're really helping show that.

Ashley Killam 19:04

And then kind of a business side of things. Did any of you have any like business experience before Young? Is this all self taught? And is there anything that you wish you had known beforehand? Like any useful skills that you think if someone wanted to start something thinks they should look into and be aware of

Claire 19:23

Oh, my goodness, so we had no idea what we were getting into? Bran was like, let's teach yoga. And we were like, hell yeah. That sounds so fun. And then we're like,

Brianne 19:33

I will say that give me a little credit because I was a yoga I was a manager of a yoga studio for quite some time. And I think that I do pull a lot of a lot of that into a lot of yame that experience has really helped me that being said, I didn't know anything about starting a business or anything like

Claire 19:51

no and and I don't even think when we started we were like, This is gonna be a business. We were like, we just want to provide yoga to people and then we realized oh, In order to do that, we need to have a website, we need to have a way to collect money. We Oh, I guess we need to figure out a name for ourselves. And then it just like the the ball started rolling, and we're like, oh, now we are starting a business. And so yeah, like Brianne had experience being a manager at a yoga studio, which really came in handy when we started hiring other yoga teachers, she knew how to create a yoga teacher handbook. And Brianne is the one who created our entire website, which is insanely beautiful, I was very lucky to have a family member who helped us through all of the business side of things. Thank you, Aunt Carol, we know you love you, and

Brianne 20:41

we love you.

Claire 20:42

And so she helped us like start our bank account and create an LLC and figure out all the tax stuff. And that literally would not have been possible without her. And then we had Claire's beautiful vision of how to curate a social media platform and find, figure out ways to connect with people virtually. And so I think what ended up happening was that all three of us had strengths that we came together and were able to do different aspects of the building of the business. We say constantly like this is not something that we could have ever done on our own. This really only truly was possible, because there were three of us. And we split all of the tasks of creating this business into thirds. And we still operate that way where I handle all the money side, Claire handles all of the visuals. Brienne does the interactions through emails and the website and creating events. And I think finding that balance in the beginning was really important to us and delegating, who was doing what was really, truly a saver, a Savior, when we were starting up our business. I also think that the three of us have a lot of practice in Conscious Communication, which has been really helpful. And if someone you know, you said something that we wish we had known, something that I'm glad that we knew, was how to communicate with each other in a really loving, honest and clear way. Because there are a lot of feelings that happen when you start a business with your two best friends like things, things happen, and crossover happens. And we don't want the business to be impacted by something that happens in friend world. But also, we're best friends. So I don't want anything to happen in friend world either. And so it's it is really difficult to navigate those two places, and especially with the stress of trying to launch the business itself. So I'm really grateful that the three of us were able to be really clear and direct with each other in our communication.

Carrie Blosser 22:42

I think that the team aspect is such an important thing. And I think when you find like the people, you like your people that are going to be your team, it makes everything a lot easier. So it sounds like the three of you kind of like your spheres are aligned perfectly to create the yoga for all musicians, which is awesome.

Brianne 22:57

I've had people ask me like, what's your advice for starting a business and I'm like, find your soulmates, like, I don't know, find two people who like to do all the crap you don't like to do. That's, that's my best advice I have for you. Because I love what I do. But I'm not touching the Instagram, I'm not touching the money. And like we, we all I think, feel that way about about each other's jobs. And it has really worked out. It's just kind of like a really fortunate little puzzle piece.

Claire 23:32

Oh my gosh, absolutely. And also, I think something that's very important is that we are still learning how to do this. Like right now we're taking on projects that we only dreamed of a year and a half ago. And now they're actually coming to life. And so we're still figuring out as new projects happen, like how to work together to create our dreams. Something that we've recently discovered is extremely helpful, which it took us way too long to get here. But we finally have two separate text threads. We have a best friend text thread. And we have a work text thread. And I don't know how we were doing it. Because literally it would be like we'd be talking about our lives. And then we talk about something y'all related. And we'd go back and forth and everything was getting lost. And now they're beautifully separate. And we can have best friend time and we can have work time. And that is so so important. Oh my gosh, that has been game changing for us recently.

Carrie Blosser 24:33

That's awesome. Yeah, actually. And I used to do just to kind of keep track of like, who's doing what or what we're doing. And like the projects I'm sure the texture and kind of does that too for you all. And we would love to know a little bit more about you've done some educational outreach and programs. We'd love to talk about the conferences and schools you've worked with maybe some things that you've you found from that community and then maybe kind of where you see that going in the future too.

Amelia 24:56

I want to say something first. I remember I remember a few years ago, I decided, Claire, it's time to take this yoga for musicians dream on the road, nobody's going to do this for you, you have to do it yourself. And so I compiled a list of undergraduate universities that I wanted to come speak at for free. If if I could, if they would allow me, I would go. And I had this list vetted by someone who I thought would advocate for me and maybe reach out to these schools on my behalf, or like, endorse me or help connect me. And this person said to me, don't you think you need to be focusing on your flute right now, that's where your focus needs to be. And that was devastating to me, because it felt first of all, like an insult, like you're not good enough to start talking to people about wellness, like, do you need to work on go in the practice room first. But it also felt like, that's impossible for you clear? Like, that's not going to happen, silly little girl with her silly little dreams, like get out of here. Get out of my office with that. And I have been reflecting on that recently, because I think in February of last year, or in the spring of last year, we taught at Nam to over 700 musicians I've taught, I've taught yoga for musicians at UCLA, we've partnered with Conn Selmer like these, these things that were beyond what baby Claire could have imagined for herself sitting in that office crying thinking that no one was going to support the stream that she had. We've gone above and beyond that. And so whoever is listening, who's been told no before, I hope and pray and believe that you have your vindale vindication moment like I, I want to send that person in email and be like, Guess what I just did. But everyone deserves to have that moment. And I think our educational programs are one of the things that I'm more proud of that we do.

Brianne 27:00

That was beautifully said, Claire, that was very beautiful. Yeah, I can kind of like go down the road of what types of things we've we've worked on. And we're all really fortunate because we've had three different musical backgrounds, three different sets of connections and networks, to kind of pull from, and I think once we really got started, and people saw what an important offering it was that we've created. And then on top of that, we were, you know, we benefit off of, you know, the pandemic is very devastating. However, we did benefit from it. And in some ways, people wanted guest teachers and guest lecturers and you know, and we can do that virtually, that's our entire platform. So we were happy to do that. So we have been able to pull from each of our individual networks and people who have heard from us and we've taught for, we did a yoga for brass players with shires. And that was super fun. We've also like recorded little videos for harmony project in Phoenix, which is really great. And that was really fun and sweet because it was for I think, like five to 12 year olds, so it was like for kids. And that's a program that I used to teach for when I lived in Phoenix and so that was really close to my heart. And lots of schools, lots of friends lots of I'm sure I'm forgetting a million things but yeah, Conn Selmer. Yeah, Claire,

Amelia 28:29

we also created a really cool package that we partnered with a musician who's also an LPC, we partnered with an audiologist, we partnered with the physical therapist and created a video lecture series that schools music can buy as part of their wellness initiative. And they can buy those videos in conjunction with student memberships for the students in their school of music, they can buy those videos in conjunction with a workshop from us, there's all these different levels and tiers of of pricing. And I think something that the three of us especially Brianne, because she works in academia now, but the three of us generally are really passionate about is that there is systemic change that needs to happen in Schools of Music in order to make the learning environment safer, both mentally and physically for musicians. And that's really where we feel like we can shine and step in the gap and provide resources and opportunities for musicians.

Ashley Killam 29:24

I think it's wonderful, the thing you're building, and I mean, the community you're building and all that you're offering to brass players and musicians alike. And I hope that this chat, at least gets people thinking about their own mental health because I know I didn't until it was like not awesome. And then the pandemic hit and realized I had a lot of catching up to do. And I know I'm not the only one with that at all. Yes, so our last question that we asked everyone what is on your music stand this week and how are you diversifying your stand whether that be physical music stand or metaphorical stand

Brianne 29:58

I can take this pretty Literally, I saw Claire's face twitching my therapist. Currently I am preparing for a faculty recital with the Faculty Brass Quintet here at crane at SUNY Potsdam. So it's the Potsdam Brass Quintet. And one of the pieces we're preparing, I think I actually came across a recording of you all playing it. And it's the variations on summer sun. By Alonzo Pirjo, yeah, I'm super excited to dive into it. We have our first rehearsal tomorrow. So really, really, really excited about that. We're also playing a Catherine McMichael piece that Sara bras has, has recorded and sounds awesome. So really, it's all very excited, exciting, and I'm looking forward to doing a lot of that and, and diving into some more things. I also hopped on, I'm very thrilled about this, I hopped on the consortium that Ashley is leading of a piece by arysta Jharna. And they are a former student of mine from Arizona State but current good friend. And so I'm really, really looking forward to that completion.

Amelia 31:11

I have something quite different on my music stand right now. So I primarily teach middle school trombone lessons. And so it is in Texas right now solo and ensemble time of the year. And so I have recently pulled out all of my middle school trombone solos. And so that's what I've been looking at to try to tear my my students with their solo for the year and gosh, talking about diversity, there is not much diversity for middle school trombone solos. And I would love to see some more I would love to see some women composers and people of color, having solos out there that are accessible for middle schoolers, because that doesn't exist right now. So yeah, that question has made me really think about that and how important it is for our, our younger students to see diversity in the music that they that they have to play.

Claire 32:02

I have a therapeutic answer. Is that okay? So on my therapeutic stand, what I'm working on is I just recently did the first portion of the first level of EMDR certification, so that I can do I Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing therapy with people who've experienced trauma. So I took that course, I started using it with my first client and I have a two hour supervision session coming up. So I'm really excited to be able to implement that I work with a lot of people who are dying, or people who have lost someone very recently, I work for hospice right now. And so I'm excited to be able to use that with some of my clients. And I was thinking about your diversity question. And it's something that comes up a lot for me, and the space that I occupy as a therapist, and a musician. And as a yogi, I think a lot of these fields, the three fields that I exist in are incredibly whitewashed, especially yoga, white women have just kind of taken this and run with it. Therapy is not a safe place for people of color for men, for people of different backgrounds, lower socioeconomic status individuals. I mean, the Tuskegee syphilis experiments we were just talking about in my research methods class and the way that that's kept black people from accessing health care in a fair and just way. And so I am constantly trying to assess and reassess the amount of power that I have in a space. And not necessarily always use my power to uplift other people, because sometimes I think that can be patronizing. But to know when to turn the dial down on the space that I take up in the room, and when to turn the dial up. This is an up moment for me, y'all are here listening to me talking. And I'm grateful. If I enter into the therapy room with a client who is of color, or a client who's of a different sexuality, or a religious background, or a client who grew up in poverty, that's when I need to shut the fuck up and listen to them. And that's how I'm trying to challenge myself to be more in touch with the beautiful spectrum of existence of humaneness that has given me power and subjugated others, how can I bear witness to that in my daily life, and use it as a tool for moderating the amount of presence that I have.

Ashley Killam 34:28

That's wonderful, you are incredible. Thank you so much for joining us and chatting with us and we can't wait to follow along with all that y'all miss doing. Thank you.

Carrie Blosser 34:40

Thank you for listening to Diversify the Stand. To support us and our projects. Visit our website at diversifythestand.org.

Ashley Killam 34:47

And a huge shout out to Eris DeJarnett who wrote the intro and outro music. The piece that we've been playing is Bored Games for two trumpets and fixed media, links to their website or in the podcast description.

Carrie Blosser 34:58

And as always, we ask our guests, what's on your stand?